wer tötete patroklos

There is a widespread attitude that Achilles and Patroclus were clearly in sexual relationship and that anyone who questions that or disagrees must have some hidden agenda that would cause them to deny their true nature. Wer tötete den Marshal? [14](pp474 b.23 l. 69–71) Patroclus was then cremated on a funeral pyre, which was covered in the hair of his sorrowful companions. Before answering, it’s important to state that Achilles and Patroclus are mythological figures. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Patroclus&oldid=988785895, Articles with incomplete citations from February 2020, Short description is different from Wikidata, Wikipedia articles with SUDOC identifiers, Wikipedia articles with WORLDCATID identifiers, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License, This page was last edited on 15 November 2020, at 06:34. When it comes to Achilles and Patroclus, the obvious place to start is Homer’s epic poem the Iliad. This confusion makes it pretty clear to me that the Classical Greeks were merely trying to project their culture onto a different, much older culture portrayed in the Iliad (which was written around the 8th century BCE and based on legends dating back to the 12th century BCE). So what is the verdict? Patroklos (griechisch Πάτροκλος „Ruhm des Vaters“, lateinisch Patroclus) ist in der griechischen Mythologie einer der griechischen Kämpfer vor Troja, Sohn des Menoitios und der Sthenele, der Freund und Waffengefährte des Achilleus. Achilleus und Patroklos Achilleus (lat. He pressed against me, crushing my lips to wine" (100). Ledbetter believes this puts Patroclus into a subordinate role to that of Achilles. [22] While Homer's Iliad never explicitly stated that Achilles and Patroclus were lovers, this concept was propounded by some later authors. You can listen to the Ancient Heroes podcast on your podcast app, iTunes, and Souncloud. did portray Achilles and Patroclus as lovers. Patroklos war der Freund des Achill und war mit ihm zusammen erzogen worden. 16 l. 460) While fighting, Patroclus' wits were removed by Apollo, after which Patroclus was hit with the spear of Euphorbos. The most one can really say is that a romantic or sexual aspect to their relationship doesn’t reflect a literal reading of the text. However, the Classical Greek writers couldn’t even agree on who was the older partner (erastes) and who was the younger partner (eromenos). Even if the myths are somehow loosely based on real individuals, the Achilles and Patrocus we know are fictional, not historical. There’s also a lot we don’t know about the Archaic Age of Greece (the time of Homer), so we’re missing some valuable context. That sense of physical devastation spoke deeply to me of a true and total intimacy between the two men. Als Achilles wegen des Streits mit Agamemnon (es ging dabei schlicht um Weibergeschichten) den Dienst an der Waffe verweigerte, obwohl die Trojaner gerade dabei waren, verlorenes Terrain zurückzuerobern, stülpte Patroklos sich kurzentschlossen die Kriegsausrüstung seines Freundes über, … Nach Achills Rückzug vom Kampf erbat sich Patroklos dessen Rüstung. Hello, Sign in. In it, Achilles and Patroclus do have a sexual relationship. [3] However, this pronunciation is seldom encountered: for metrical convenience, Alexander Pope had made the 'o' long, and thus stressed, in his translation of Homer, following a convention of Greek and Latin verse, and that pronunciation – of Latin pa.trō′.clus – has stuck, for English /pəˈtroʊ.kləs/. Patroclus would be cremated, and Achilles arranged for funeral games to be held in his honour, where Diomedes was victorious against the likes of Meriones and Antilochus in the chariot racing, and Teucer was victorious in the archery contest. "[25] Later Greek writings such as Plato's Symposium, the relationship between Patroclus and Achilles is discussed as a model of romantic love. 16 l. 804–822), Achilles retrieved his body, which had been stripped of armor by Hector and protected on the battlefield by Menelaus and Ajax. [19] However, as Patroclus is explicitly stated to be the elder of the two characters,[20] this is not evidence of their ages or social relation to each other. Gregory Nagy, who may well be the world’s leading authority on the Iliad and the meaning behind the text, writes that, “For Achilles ... in his own ascending scale of affection as dramatized by the entire composition of the Iliad, the highest place must belong to Patroklos.” Again, nothing necessarily sexual. Patroclus returns as a ghost and has one final conversation with Achilles: “A last request - grant it, please. Achilles Returns to the Fight. Menoetius gave Patroclus to Peleus, Achilles' father, who named Patroclus Achilles' "squire" as Patroclus and Achilles grew up together. Here are some of his words: “My dear comrade’s dead - Patroclus - the man I loved beyond all other comrades, loved as my own life - I’ve lost him.” Book 18. After all, they were much closer to Homer in terms of the timeline than we are. Because many Greeks of the 5th and 4th centuries BCE, centuries later after the Iliad was written, did portray Achilles and Patroclus as lovers. It does not state or, as far as I can tell, even imply that Achilles and Patroclus are lovers. [8] Homer also references Menoetius as the individual who gave Patroclus to Peleus. There is certainly an argument that myths evolve over time and Homer’s version is just one (albeit important) link in that ongoing chain. Madeline Miller, who holds a Masters degree in Classics from Brown University, spent over a decade adapting the Iliad into the award-winning novel The Song of Achilles (which I review here). [18] According to Ledbetter (1993),[19] there is a train of thought that Patroclus could have been a representation of the compassionate side of Achilles, who was known for his rage, mentioned in the first line of Homer's Iliad. [14](pp373 b. If by “Were Achilles and Patroclus lovers?”, one is asking about the meaning behind the oldest and most comprehensive source we have, the answer for me is probably not. Many of history’s greatest thinkers, writers, and artists thought of Achilles and Patroclus as romantically involved. Plato presents one version in his Symposium, while Aeschylus presents another in his lost play The Myrmidons (meanwhile others at the time, such as Xenophon, don’t seem convinced the two were lovers at all). In twenty-first-century adaptations of the story of the Trojan War, Achilles and Patroklos are often portrayed as gay lovers. From this standpoint, why is Shakespeare’s interpretation (in which they are lovers) any less valid than Homer’s? Or just platonic friends? In an interview she was asked how she came to the conclusion that the two were lovers: I stole it from Plato! In the play Achilles, who has become lazy, is besotted with Patroclus. Patroclus, a young comrade of Achilles, travels to Troy to help the Greeks win Helen back from the clutches of the Trojan Paris. I wouldn’t normally write an article in response to a single person’s opinion online, but I have come across this sentiment many times over the years. He states that another character could have filled the role of confidant for Achilles, and that it was only through Patroclus that we have a worthy reason for Achilles' wrath. [23][24][b] Aeschines asserts that there was no need to explicitly state the relationship as a romantic one,[24] for such "is manifest to such of his hearers as are educated men. I kissed his neck, the span of his chest, and tasted the salt. Hector, der ihn für Achilles hielt, tötete Patroklos in der Schlacht und schickte Achilles in eine Spirale der Trauer. [16] Achilles did not allow the burial of Patroclus' body until the ghost of Patroclus appeared and demanded his burial in order to pass into Hades. Simply put, it says they are incredibly close companions. It’s also worth noting that some folks with much better credentials than me appear to disagree with some of my conclusions. [23][27], Achilles was younger than Patroclus. Later, Achilles holds an elaborate and emotional funeral ritual for Patroclus and even places a lock of his own hair in Patroclus’ hands (Book 23). [15] Patroclus killed many Trojans and Trojan allies, including a son of Zeus, Sarpedon. There are at least three pronunciations of the name 'Patroclus' in English. Patroclus is a character in William Shakespeare's play Troilus and Cressida. [26] However, Xenophon, in his Symposium, had Socrates argue that it was inaccurate to label their relationship as romantic. Triumphant Achilles dragging Hector's body around Troy, from a panoramic fresco of the Achilleion. Ledbetter connects the way that Achilles and his mother Thetis communicate to the communication between Achilles and Patroclus. Skip to main content.com.au. It’s one of my favorite books and I know that Miller did everything she could to be true to the ancient source material. [2] auch Achill) war unter den Griechen der tapferste Held vor Troja. Although there is a lot of speculation about the relationship between Achilles and Patroclus, Homer never states nor does he imply that their relationship is sexual or romantic. They presented them as part of a pederastic relationship, which was a custom at the time in which an older male (usually in his twenties) formed a sexual relationship with a younger male (usually in his teens). Hector then killed Patroclus by stabbing him in the stomach with a spear. [14](pp363 b. The death of Patroclus saw Achilles rejoin the war, but after the … It is the oldest surviving, most definitive account of their lives, as well as the source material that most of the later interpretations and representations were based on. “Yes, Achilles is gay,” he states definitively. On Quora, I recently came across a popular answer to the question “What important parts of Greek myths do filmmakers always seem to get wrong?”. Never bury my bones apart from yours, Achilles, let them lie together…So now let a single urn, the gold two-handed urn your noble mother gave you, hold our bones - together.” Book 23. For me, the most compelling piece of evidence, aside from the depth of Achilles’ grief, is how he grieves: Achilles refuses to burn Patroclus’ body, insisting instead on keeping the corpse in his tent, where he constantly weeps and embraces it—despite the horrified reactions of those around him. Achilles consented, giving Patroclus the armor Achilles had received from his father, in order for Patroclus to impersonate Achilles. James Hooker describes the literary reasons for Patroclus' character within the Iliad. Mythology, Greek Heroes, History, Podcast Notes, Greek history, ancient history, bronze age, achilles, Trojan War, the Iliad, Homer, mycenaeans, Alexander the Great, Alexandria, Alexander the Great's tomb. Prime Cart. [a][13], According to the Iliad, when the tide of the Trojan War had turned against the Greeks and the Trojans were threatening their ships, Patroclus convinced Achilles to let him lead the Myrmidons into combat. Achilles then told Patroclus to return after beating the Trojans back from their ships. Anything beyond that is an exercise in speculation, projection, or interpretation (or all three). So certainty isn’t really on the table here. And as for the way Achilles grieves, it certainly underscores their intimacy, but doesn’t necessarily imply a sexual intimacy. To defend the other side for a moment, we simply don’t know for sure what Homer wished us to believe about Achilles and Patroclus. In an article about the film Troy in the Guardian, the reviewer writes, “It seems the Greek hero (Achilles) has undergone a radical straightening process – and I'm not talking about his hair any more. Patroclus was then killed by Hector, who took Achilles' armour from the body of Patroclus. Try. In Greek mythology, as recorded in Homer's Iliad, Patroclus (pronunciation variable but generally / p ə ˈ t r oʊ k l ə s /; Ancient Greek: Πάτροκλος Pátroklos "glory of the father") was a close wartime companion of Achilles.He was the son of Menoetius, the son of Actor, King of Opus and, through his grandmother Aegina, Achilles’ first cousin once removed. Were Achilles and Patroclus lovers? What important parts of Greek myths do filmmakers always seem to get wrong? Gerade als die Kämpfe für die Griechen wirklich schlimm wurden, führte Patroclus, Achilles 'bester Freund, eine Anklage gegen Hektors Truppen an, während er Achilles Rüstung trug. There are many other similar moments, but I think you get the picture. As the cutting of hair was a sign of grief while also acting as a sign of the separation of the living and the dead, this points to how well-liked Patroclus had been. Miller also admits that she took inspiration from other sources than the Iliad to develop her story. Ledbetter does so by comparing how Thetis comforts the weeping Achilles in Book 1 of the Iliad to how Achilles comforts Patroclus as he weeps in Book 16. Der reagierte darauf mit Kampf und Tötungsstreik und auch sein bester Freund der Patroklos wird nicht mehr kämpfen. This writer is sure that Hollywood (and specifically the 2004 film Troy) refuses to show the true romantic nature of their relationship in order to appeal to a wider audience. [12] Patroclus acted as a male role model for Achilles, as he was both older than Achilles and wise regarding counsel. Patroklos ist in Homers „Ilias“ ein guter Freund des Achilles, wenn nicht sogar der beste. But I’m also going to examine the best evidence that Achilles and Patroclus were in a romantic or sexual relationship. (German Edition) eBook: West, Thomas, Mayer, Steve: Amazon.com.au: Kindle Store. Nevertheless, their relationship is said to have inspired Alexander the Great in his own close relationship with his life-long companion Hephaestion. Ok, so why do so many people seem to disagree with Homer, or subscribe to an interpretation that goes beyond what he wrote? It’s a little more abstract and open to interpretation. If, however, one is looking at the totality of the mythological tradition of Achilles and Patroclus, clearly there is plenty of precedent to depict them as lovers. We even have a fragment from a lost tragedy of Aeschylus, where Achilles speaks of his and Patroclus’ “frequent kisses.”. Wer war Patroklos? [4] Patroclus drove the Trojans all the way back to the walls of Troy, and was only prevented from storming the city by the intervention of Apollo. Seine Mutter Thetis machte ihn bis auf die Ferse unverwundbar ("Achillessehne"). Achilleus, dt. It reveals the futility of mortals endeavoring to go against the gods, and the price of reckless behavior. Achilles uses a simile containing a young girl tearfully looking at her mother to complete the comparison. Und die Seele Patroklos', des tapfern Antilochos' Seele, Αἴαντός ϑ', ὃς ἄριστος ἔην εἶδός τε δέμας τε : Und des gewaltigen Ajas, des ersten an Wuchs und Bildung: τῶν ἄλλων Δαναῶν μετ' ἀμύμονα Πηλεΐωνα. … Hooker argues that the greater the love, the greater the loss. But don’t take my word for it. [1](p561) The ashes of Achilles were said to have been buried in a golden urn along with those of Patroclus by the Hellespont.[17]. Below I’ve posted a good Youtube video I found about this same subject. According to his theory, this affection allows for the even deeper tragedy that occurs. During his childhood, Patroclus had killed another child in anger over a game. Some believe there are clues within the text that he hoped readers and listeners would pick up on, but that is a pretty big stretch for me. Here is one short excerpt from their younger days, before the Trojan War began: "I was trembling, afraid to put him to flight. You've got to wonder why they bothered making a film about ancient Greece in the first place..”. Agamemnon entschied darauf hin, um Achilleus zu zeigen wer der mächtigere ist, die Tochter zurückzugeben und anstelle die Bettgenossin von Achilleus zu nehmen. They are often shown as lovers in cultures that are more sexually liberal (especially as it pertains to same-sex love) and as close friends in cultures that are more sexually conservative. Nachdem er Sarpedon getötet hatte, ermutigte Apollon Hektor wieder zum Kampf und griff in diesen selbst ein. So, there really is no “true” answer in the same way we know that, say, the United States was founded in 1776. There is a lot of support for their relationship in the text of the Iliad itself, though Homer never makes it explicit. He smelled like almonds and earth. Feels like wishful thinking. Sein Vater war Peleus. He begs his dear friend, the great warrior Achilles, to lend him his armor so he can battle the Trojans. [30](p 112) Dowden also notes the common occurrence of such relationships as a form of initiation. I’m not convinced he wanted us to think they were lovers, but there are a few passages that certainly open up the possibility. [a][c] This reinforces Dowden's explanation of the relationship between an eromenos, a youth in transition, and an erastes, an older male who had recently made the same transition. During this time, Peleus made Patroclus one of Achilles' "henchmen". Beide galten als ideales Freundespaar und kämpften gemeinsam vor Troja. So, although I don’t think Homer intended us to view Achilles and Patroclus as lovers, that view doesn’t directly contradict Homer’s version either. But nothing between them in the Iliad is explicitly romantic or sexual. Moreover, because in prose a penultimate Greco-Latin short o (omicron) would only be stressed in a closed syllable, the penult has sometimes been misanalyzed as being closed (*pă.trŏc′.lŭs), which would change the English o to a short vowel: /pəˈtrɒk.ləs/.[5]. Recklessness and arrogance are recurring themes throughout the epic. [18] Morales and Mariscal state "there is a polemical tradition concerning the nature of the relationship between the two heroes". According to this answer, which as of writing this has been upvoted over 6,000 times, one of those things they get wrong is the relationship between Achilles and Patroclus. At least not to me. 16 l. 64–87) Patroclus defied Achilles' order and pursued the Trojans back to the gates of Troy. Maybe the Greeks of the Classical Age knew something about this earlier time period we don’t. So it depends on how you approach finding “truth” in mythology. Account & Lists Account Returns & Orders. This projection has been a common thread running through portrayals of Achilles and Patroclus ever since ancient times. Get news and discoveries about the ancient world sent directly to your inbox. [14](pp353 b. I did not know what to do, what he would like. 470: In dem achaiischen Heer, nach dem tadellosen Achilleus. It is clear that Achilles and Patroclus had an incredibly deep, intimate bond. Patroclus death was one of the most poignant and powerful scenes in the Iliad. So what does the Iliad say? The Funeral of Patroclus - Jacques-Louis David (1748–1825) - PD-art-100. Hooker claims that without the death of Patroclus, an event that weighed heavily upon him, Achilles' following act of compliance to fight would have disrupted the balance of the Iliad. Patroclus can't stand it, and is determined to vanquish the Trojans. Sie wollte ihn auch unsterblich machen, indem sie ihn in ein himmlisches Feuer hielt und die Leibesstellen verzehrte, die sterblich waren und die sie dann mit Amrosia wieder heilte. No gods and no gay men. Achilles is the strongest, more virile of men—the son of a nymph and a mortal man, Achilles was prophesized at birth to either die an … Here are some of his words: “My dear comrade’s dead - Patroclus - the man I loved beyond all other comrades, loved as my own life - I’ve lost him.” Book 18. He was the son of Menoetius, the son of Actor, King of Opus and, through his grandmother Aegina, Achilles’ first cousin once removed. Although there is no explicit sexual relationship between Achilles and Patroclus in the Homeric tradition, later Greek authors wrote about what they saw as implied in the text regarding their relationship. Homer does not explicitly say they were, nor does he clearly imply it. [21] Hooker describes the necessity of Patroclus sharing a deep affection with Achilles within the Iliad. So, here, I’m going to bring us back to the original sources and offer something of a rebuttal to this popular interpretation. After Patroclus is killed by Hector, Achilles reacts with intense sorrow and anger, going as far to say that he has lost his will to live until he is able to avenge Patroclus’ life. Hooker continues to negate Ledbetter's theory that Patroclus is in some way a surrogate for Achilles; rather, Hooker views Patroclus' character as a counterpart to that of Achilles. Here are a couple moments and quotes that proponents of the “lover” argument often cite: It is indisputable that Achilles and Patroclus are especially close to one another. [21], Achilles and Patroclus grew up together after Menoitios gave Patroclus to Achilles' father, Peleus. 223). Hooker reminds us that it is Patroclus who pushes the Trojans back, which Hooker claims makes Patroclus a hero, as well as foreshadowing what Achilles is to do. The idea that Patroclus and Achilles were lovers is quite old. According to Hyginus, Patroclus was the child of Menoetius by either Sthenele, Periopis, Polymele,[6] Philomela,[7] or Damocrateia. Achilles even wishes that all of the other soldiers, both Greek and Trojan, would perish so he and Patroclus could conquer Troy by themselves (Book 16). Aeschylus and Phaedrus, for example, state there was a clear relationship between them, and they both refer to Achilles as the eromenos of the relationship. It is the gold standard when it comes to the mythology of Achilles and Patroclus. Robin Lane Fox, another one of the most influential and knowledgeable historians of ancient Greece, sums it up by saying, “There is certainly no evidence in the text of the Iliad that Achilles and Patroclus were lovers” (The Tribal Imagination: Civilization and the Savage Mind, pg. The story of Achilles and Patroclus existed well before Hades ever came into being. In Greek mythology, as recorded in Homer's Iliad,[1] Patroclus (pronunciation variable but generally /pəˈtroʊkləs/; Ancient Greek: Πάτροκλος Pátroklos "glory of the father") was a close wartime companion of Achilles. The fragment Miller refers to is from the Myrmidons by Aeschylus, which I mentioned before was written a couple of centuries after the Iliad was finalized. Many Greco-Roman authors read their relationship as a romantic one—it was a common and accepted interpretation in the ancient world. [30](p 114). [10] Menoetius was the son of Actor,[11] king of Opus in Locris by Aegina, daughter of Asopus. After Patroclus is killed by Hector, Achilles reacts with intense sorrow and anger, going as far to say that he has lost his will to live until he is able to avenge Patroclus’ life. Achilles, maddened with grief over the death of Patroclus, swore to kill Hector in … This is how they are portrayed, for instance, in Madeline Miller’s novel The Song of Achilles (published in 2012) and in the BBC television series Troy: Fall of a City(released in 2018).Many people have wondered how faithful these portrayals are to the ancient sources. In the Iliad, Homer describes a deep and meaningful relationship between Achilles and Patroclus, where Achilles is tender toward Patroclus but callous and arrogant toward others.Homer never explicitly … The relationship between Achilles and Patroclus is a key element of the stories associated with the Trojan War.Its exact nature has been a subject of dispute in both the Classical period and modern times. He seemed to swell beneath my touch, to ripen. ἔγνω δὲ ψ Because the penultimate syllable is light in Latin prose (pă′.trŏ.clŭs), the antepenult was stressed in Latin and would normally be stressed in English as well, for /ˈpæ.trə.kləs/ (analogous to 'Sophocles'). It’s one of the big questions of Greek mythology that continues to be debated thousands of years later: were Achilles and Patroclus lovers?

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